It's not just Downer who lies. As far as my considered opinion takes me, the majority of the Liberal Government belongs in prison, charged with treason against the Australian public.

What rhymes with Ruddock? I reckon the rhyme is Rumsfeld :)

  But anyhow, have a look at this site. It's something I said from day one: "History will tell who was involved in 911." Of course I got laughed at. When I found this site some time ago, I finally knew, that I am not the only one thinking the way I think.

www.reopen911.org/

So no-one flew two airliners into the buildings huh? All those cameras and pictures were fake? You're insane.
Do you actually know what treason is defined as under the Crimes Act?

A bit overzealous perhaps, but not insane. Go get the videos that were publicly released, slow em right down and SEE for yourself the explosions which occurred before the planes crashed into the WTC. The go get the vid and pix of the pentagon and see where the wreckage is. (not inside, mate, the original hole was only 16 ft diameter. The tailsection of a 757 is 40ft tall)...its all wrong.

Alexander Downer is following the party line and the party line follows the US line which tells lies. Make no mistake, we do what we are told to do and say what we are told to say, Downer along with the rest of them. That's why in the face of overwhelming public opinion condemning our involvement in Iraq, Howard will risk the next election and plough on regardless. He has no choice. It woudn't be any different if Labor or the Dems were in power. Now there's a conspiracy theory for ya!

Oh, but of course those planes flew into the WTC. We all saw it on TV, and it happened. However, show me one piece of evidence (be it a picture or a video) where we can see a plane connecting with the Pentagon! Show me one piece of visual evidence, and I shut up.

Sure I am insane. So was Nietsche. Thanks for the compliment.

. . . And what about the "4th" plane? Maybe I am just ignorant, but I truly can't remember any TV coverage of that either. All I saw was a field after the fact.

Hmmm.

Thanks for your support <smile>.

Question however: 'Overzealous' has different meanings, and I looked it up in the dictionary.

Which of the following are you applying to me? Enthusiastic, Keen, Passionate, Fervent, Ardent, Fanatical, Obsessive, Eager, Extreme, coz I think, there is quite a different meaning to those words within themselves.

I must say that I have always strongly felt that something wasn't right and something didn't add up in relation to September 11. Especially with the Pentagon and also in relation to the extent of the damage of the Twin Towers.

Personally, I believe that, as per process and procedure, we are being kept in the dark and unfortunately I do feel that September 11 was either allowed to happen or helped to happen in order to inflame the tension with our Muslim neighbours. And boy did it work!

I wish I didn't feel that way, but I do.

Wow. I'm not convinced yet of some sort of cover-up of previous knowledge of S11, but I am amazed at how many people are. Either the US government is capable of an unthinkable level of terror on its own people, or a hell of a lot of people think that's the case. Either way, it's too extraordinary a possibility to contemplate.

It is clear that the event was manipulated to serve pre-ordained military and political agendas.

I was hoping that this site might be open to the more "radical" viewpoint but it seems that anything outside the mainstream runs the risk of being called insane. Well book me into the local mental ward 'cause I think the rabbit hole is going to prove to be a lot deeper yet. Let's respect each others viewpoints and keep it nice and friendly like.

So you think it's to extraordinary to contemplate?

I hate to say this, but most Germans never ever thought that the truth of terror against Germans could take on the shape of gas chambers.

Contemplating the so called 'Impossible' always takes one further to the truth. Clearing ones own mind from what is said, written and watched on TV, and listening to ones own feelings (we call it guts) arrives at the truth! NOT contemplating possibilities is failure.

 However I am not contemplating in this case.

I am convinced history will show what really happened on 9/11, and who called the shots (pardon the pun).

I just like to add something I wrote on the 14th of September. It was even put at the memorial wall at ground zero by a friend of mine. Maybe it's still there.

Look at the second last paragraph of what I wrote. I have been sharing a lot of more tears since then. I was right then, I am right now. .............................................

To the American People

The sadness of loss has come to my land
We live oceans apart, yet united we'll stand

You're Country was home for a couple of years
Now I'am sitting here, and am sharing your tears

What happened that day, is beyond my believe
My soul full of sadness, my heart full of grieve

Although not related, I lost Brothers and Sisters
Unbearable pain, and my mind full with blisters

Where do we go now? I am full of fears
Will I have to share a lot of more tears?

My thoughts are with you, and the thoughts of my Nation
When evil is wiped, we will call celebration

Wolf (South Australia)

Since then, I have learned where and who the 'Evil' actually is

Former Liberal foreign minister Alexander Downer says comments he made about Kevin Rudd have been misinterpreted.

News Limited is today reporting that Mr Downer gave Mr Rudd information that he knew that Mr Rudd would then leak.

The report says Mr Downer claims Mr Rudd then used it by feeding it to the media to embarrass Labor's then foreign affairs spokesman Laurie Brereton.

Mr Rudd eventually replaced Mr Brereton as shadow foreign affairs minister.

But Mr Downer has released a statement this morning saying the interpretation placed on the comments he made are "wrong".

"The interpretation placed on my comments to the Sunday Telegraph is wrong," he said.

"Kevin Rudd was not used by me or other members of the Liberal Party as a so-called 'double agent' to leak material against other members of the Labor Party."

-----------------------------------

Gus: yes Alex Clowner has always been flat-footedly ambiguous, since he never read emails nor documents relating to whatever — including AWB... If the Labor leaders are accused of showing poor attendance to national security meetings, Downer takes the cake for being over-pushy — ignoring anything and everthing that showed clearly he was wrong on all issues, including Saddam WMDs for which he gave us an earful at least 8,000 times...

As he ever apologised for telling crap? No, he got a pat on the back from a smiling Rattus the first. And Rattus the second (or the Turd) is part of this conspiracy...

Wait for more crap from Tony. Unfortunately, some people in the electorate are like blow flies — they are attracted to it as if it was the best smelling thing on earth. See toon at top.

Well said Gus!!!

Oakes is like the ballast in a ship - without it the ship may well capsize but - who other than the Navy even knows or cares about the ballast?  Oakes does - and so does the foreign Corporations in Australia.

While I am sure that, in the final analysis, the media provides the information by which we, the plebes, will judge our final votes, it is terribly difficult to explain this obvious abuse of privilege to the ordinary working families of Australia.

For over a decade they have been progressively denied justice in the workplace by Employer Unions (26 of them I believe) and by the Howard "New Order" WorkChoices - Howard and Abbott's most proud achievements?

Most often they don’t have the time to worry about anything more expensive than a newspaper, or a radio or even a TV so they are captive to the most tabloid type of information which, by successive governments of both major persuasions have allowed - and even used to their advantage.

IMHO, when I look back, I cannot remember a time when a Labor government denied justice to working people.  After Kevin Rudd’s Labor party election, he tried like Whitlam, to be reformist before the media crushed his popularity – and now their previous favoritism of Julia was clearly shown to be the divisive sham that it was.  NEVER trust the “for profit” media.

The opposition’s foreign Corporations and media IOU’s must be enormous with the current blatant protection of “The Mad Monk” – Australia and Labor’s biggest advantage approaching the Murdoch election. His entire inherent DNA has been shamefully, and intentionally, covered by the unsubstantiated leaks of the Oakes’/Downer/Bishop Allegations!  Allegations did I say? I can’t remember reading that in either of the MSM.  Funny that hey?

“The more you get the more you want” is, unfortunately, the objective of the Major foreign Corporations but also of the working people who have so obviously benefited from the short tenure of a Labor government. An example of what could happen if Labor – not necessarily Rudd – not necessarily Gillard – has a chance to “share the wealth”.

Most of our people of all nationalities and religions have profited from the Rudd/Gillard short years in government, and like the Whitlam DISSMISSAL the Labor government was swept to power by a subdued people who media had been convinced that their very existence depended on “investment” when it was actually SELLING THE PEOPLES’ ASSETS to the biggest buyer.  A garage sale?  But – leaving a surplus of money with less assets.  That’s nice.

As a footnote, and I have no special like for Jolly Joe, but, does anyone other than myself remember some time ago before the declaration of the election, that the Shadow Treasurer Hockey stated at an interview that their actions were in no way related to the DISSMISSAL? He wasn’t asked, he just said it? Is honesty Joe’s weakness?

The difference between me and Oakes is that I genuinely remember the incident on TV but I am probably alone and the good part is that my belief is not ANONYMOUS. I am however, putting this to the forum in case someone else remembers it – it was fleeting but it resonated with me.

The calculated media blitz to disenfranchise the elected labor government in 1975 was just as much an effort to destroy the “Lucky Country” as it is now.

The insult of the media electing the government is bad enough but, where outside of this independent forum, can an over eighteen voter go to find out the truth?

With all of the shameful history of the neo-conservatives the worst is that “Abbott will decide what the people will be told and how he will tell it”.

God Bless Australia and may we plebes vote for our nation, not the foreigners and their dual citizenships in our country.  NE OUBLIE.

G'day Wolf,

There was never any doubt in my mind that the Bush/Cheney accepted investigation was flawed and showed it from the start.  However, after time and with a small diversion of an invasion of Afghanistan for no legitimate reason - the obvious blunders and cover up facts of that tragedy are still alive and well.

One fact has stood out and media ignored since that day so many innocent people died for the glory of “the Emperor” – and that is that it suited the Republicans in the white house for a war they wanted but couldn’t justify.

If we take a quick gander at the war history of the US we find that in every case a “heinous act against our democracy” was convenient when required.

Perhaps the most revealing facts on that day is Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 911 documentary.

However, at varying times, some claims well apart chronologically, were made by - for example, the FBI; the CIA; the Federal Police forces; and even the specially formed Homeland Protection Agency – plus others – all are claimed to have had some information on the activities of the alleged culprits but - due to the competition between the over-governed US people – they didn’t collectively decide to do anything.  I just don’t believe that.

Someone in our forum queried the planes doing the job on the towers and the films were correct but – from the start I wondered why anyone would already be prepared to have a major filming outfit which covers the planes courses, from an excellent photo angle, even before the planes are in sight.

Later we learned that three Journalists from “Israel” were jumping up and down excitedly while the massive collapse (straight down) of the towers took place.  When arrested and questioned by police one of them stated that they were there simply there to film the event? They were then released and allowed to leave the country along with the Royal Family of Saudi Arabia whose citizens were alleged to be the perpetrators.

To further muddy the waters, the media at first reported that some 4,000 Jewish employees in the Twin Towers did not attend work on that day. After the effect of this statement was felt, it was roundly denied but, without reasonable excuse.  My Wife and I checked up on Jewish holidays and 9/11 was not one of them.

The Twin Towers did not survive an attack for which they were supposed to be built to resist and yet – the builder claimed that they were to protect themselves from 727’s NOT 747’s.  Fair dinkum.

And Wolf, Tower number 7 which was insured by its recent owner Silverstein for billions of dollars a few months before the attack, refused to collapse and most people escaped. Then it collapsed with very doubtful excuses.

So, unexplained issues include why the Mayor of New York claimed that Ground Zero was non-toxic and safe to be cleaned up when hundreds of public servants who braved the toxins have since died of cancer.

The photos of the alleged 15 Saudi Arabians and 2 others, (if I remember correctly) were posted and yet, what proof is there that they were the perpetrators or that they even existed.  With today’s technology, it would be more than easy to make photos of non-existent people?

Or did they go through the rubble and find bits and pieces which they could safely identify - by DNA perhaps - as the perpetrators of this heinous crime? The historic “blame the Negros and hang them” simplification for all problems in the US was put aside while an equally innocent Afghanistan was invaded.

It was imperative that the facts of that day be hidden and skewed to a point where the very safety of every single American citizen was claimed to be in jeopardy.  Fair dinkum.

IMHO, the most critical danger to the American people is not without, but within.

And as an aside, we Australians are also facing the unbridled power to elect that has been fostered in our country to satisfy the absurd “honor system” of privately owned media.  Struth.

And at least Australian Federal Labor can safely say that “They hate us for our values”.  But Murdoch would not allow that to be printed would he???

Cheers Wolf,

Ern.

I hope that my explanation to Wolf has some resonance with you?

Of course you are right - the fact is that it did happen and the films IMHO were authentic but, the doubts which surround almost every aspect of that day are still without cohesive claims by the then incumbent G.W. Bush Republican administration - or with the lame (JFK Assassination) variables and indefinite findings.

I would like to debate you on the issue in this forum if you are of open mind.

John and Gus allow rare freedom for us, the outspoken minority in this once great country and I confidently claim that your opinion would be treated with respect.

Not necessarily by me.

Cheers,

Ern G.

Senior members of the Howard government and the Defence Department are denying claims that Australian soldiers were involved in transporting Iraqis to secret prisons during the war.

A United States military document obtained by The Guardian newspaper identifies an Australian SAS squadron of 150 men and says it was "integral" to the operation of a secret facility, known as H1, in Iraq's western desert in 2003.

...

Former foreign affairs minister Alexander Downer dismisses claims that Australia played an integral role in the so-called black sites - secret prison facilities hidden from the Red Cross.

"I think that's likely to be complete nonsense," Mr Downer said.

"I don't think the SAS would have known anything about black sites at that time and certainly we didn't in the Australian government.

"But we did have protocols in place.

"If memory serves me well... we didn't actually detain prisoners ourselves but we handed them over to countries that, and obviously to the Americans and the British in particular at that time, which signed up to international norms of treatment of prisoners in circumstances like that."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-02-09/defence/3820886?WT.svl=news1

See toon at top...

Now that we’re out of Iraq, the CIA has come clean on how come it was bamboozled about Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction. The FOIA ferrets over at the National Security Archive petitioned for, and got, the Central Intelligence Agency’s equivalent of the dog-ate-my-homework (technically, the NSA obtained this document under a Mandatory Declassification Review request it made in 2006, which can be faster [it still took six years!] than an FOIA request, if the requester has sufficient details on a specific document).

Bottom line, from the CIA’s point of view: Saddam used to lie about possessing WMD, so we believed he still was.

Unfortunately, the nation went to war based largely on that false intelligence. Four thousand, four hundred and eight-six U.S. troops, 318 allies, and untold thousands of Iraqis died in the ensuing conflict.

While much of the CIA explanation has been redacted, these surviving passages stand out:

Read more: http://nation.time.com/2012/09/06/iraq-how-the-cia-says-it-blew-it-on-saddams-wmd/#ixzz25kP0WXQ8

Gus: this of course does not hold water... We know that all of them were lying... For example, Blix would have found at least one smoking gun somewhere if there were WMDs and Saddam submitted a 10,000 page document to the United Nations to show and tell how he destroyed his arsenal of WMDs in 1991 or so... But the said document was redacted by the US administration before it hit the sheves (mainly to remove the names of the US WMDs suppliers) and was thus reduced to about 5400 readable pages... And the US, despite not being able to find a trace of hooplah anywhere, decided to say that "Saddam was lying" and his documents was not worth the papyrus it was printed upon, while the CIA did not not have one ounce of evidence to prove anything... Actually the evidence was seriously mounting that Saddam HAD NO WMDs thus the US decided to wipe his arse before more evidence would show he had a clean bum... Result? Blair Bush and Howard lied like the swines they were... and many people lost their life and many others were exiled — and now Iraq is a friend of Iran... See The Trilogy

See toon at top...

By Alexander Downer

Let me be blunt; I think we were right to play our own small part in the destruction of the regime of Saddam Hussein. It was a far from perfect operation, mistakes were made and the sectarian violence which followed was appalling. But there are three reasons why the world is better off for the demise of the Hussein regime.

The first is simple humanity. Hussein's regime was one of extreme brutality. He murdered thousands of his people - Shiites and Kurds - to consolidate his dictatorial hold on power. He used chemical weapons against his own people.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/politics/even-with-hindsight-the-iraq-war-was-the-best-option-for-all-concerned-20130324-

Clowner  — or Alexander Downer for short — or minister Clouseau for those who knew him at work in Cyprus, was the major spruiker of the biggest lies ever peddled on this planet on behalf of John Howard... He kept taking us for naive mugs and now he wades once again with his big clown shoes in the sad mud that was a terrible mistake.

At every opportunity (about 18,574 times), on any street corner where Clowner opened his pansy-pooty trap, he was touting with an irritating certainty that "Saddam has Weapons of Mass Destruction"... We knew Clowner was telling fibs... Big porkies...

But his team of Liberals (conservatives) led by captain Turdus Rattus went ahead for biffo on the side of the Yanks and the Poms anyway... They did something stupid and totally wreck-ballsy...

At least when Clouseau did something completely stupid, he had the amazing accidental ability to fall back on his feet at the last minute... Not a chance for Clowner... Total wipe out.

Clowner can try all he likes to whitewash the stench of the war. It won't wash with anyone, except a few morons on the north shore.

The Iraq war was an unnecessary war that killed far more people than it saved and it delivered Iraq to the Iranians influence... Two own goals, plus a penalty against one's own team with the death of too many soldiers for nothing... Many Iraqi died...

Clowner should have been sent to the front lines, had it not been for his two flat right feet and his big fly trap that never shut up about WMDs blah blah blah...

See toon at top...

Even were this so, this is not the role of a former Liberal Party leader who has botched virtually every task he has undertaken.

Downer’s failures as John Howard’s foreign minister are notorious.

They include:

• Slashing aid to Indonesia at the depths of its recession by $22 million in the 1996 budget, then by another $11 million in 1997, costing thousands of lives.
• Offending Indonesia through other inept actions, including the infamous 1998 letter from PM Howard to President Habibie on East Timor, regarded as triggering the 1999 massacres.
• Falsely accusing Indonesian police of complicity in the 2004 bombing of the Australian embassy which killed 11 and injured hundreds. Later Downer lamely claimed that if he hadn’t repeated a baseless rumour he might have been criticised.
• Dealing so ineptly with the Solomon Islands that Australia’s ambassador was expelled in 2006.
• Damaging relations with Papua New Guinea to the point where PM Michael Somare threatened in 2006 to recall Australia’s high commissioner and suspend official visits.
• • Hindering global efforts on climate by not ratifying the Kyoto protocol.
  • Announcing that refugees at sea had thrown their children overboard when the government knew they hadn’t.
  • Diverting overseas aid funds to detention centres, embassy buildings, security and promoting trade;
  • Paying $300 million of overseas aid money illegally to Saddam Hussein through the Australian Wheat Board.
  • Claiming aid money diverted to detention centres in Nauru was for ‘humanitarian refugee resettlement’ while at the same time refusing refugee status to those eligible.
  • Reducing real overseas aid, after rorts, from 0.34 per cent of GNI to an all-time low of 0.19 per cent during a period of record surpluses.
  • With the USA, illegally invading Iraq on the pretext that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.
  • Continuing to support the illegal invasion after the false pretext had been exposed, killing tens of thousands of Iraqis.
  • Allowing US agents to torture Australian citizens Mamdouh Habib and David Hicks.
  • Allowing Hicks to be jailed without trial for five years, then obliging him to avoid further torture in jail only by pleading guilty to charges without trial.
  • Illegally deporting Vivian Alvarez Solon to the Philippines in 2001.
• Illegally detaining Cornelia Rau for 10 months in 2004-05 in Baxter detention centre.
• Wrongly accusing Dr Mohamed Haneef of terrorism and then jailing him after he was granted bail.
• Ridiculing 43 former defence chiefs, diplomats and departmental heads when they expressed dismay in 2004 at Australia’s foreign policy. Downer’s colleague Dee-Anne Kelly called them‘doddering daiquiri diplomats’.

There are others.

Downer’s ineptitude has not diminished since losing office.

In May 2008, when Western naval vessels were positioned off Burma to help disaster victims, he called for regime change. According to a furious Malcolm Fraser, then Professorial Fellow at the Asia Pacific Centre for Military Law, this blunder justified the Burmese junta refusing assistance, costing thousands of lives.

In mid-2008, Downer was appointed UN Secretary-General’s special representative for Cyprus, supposedly to help revive the peace process in that divided Mediterranean island.

In five years in that role, he has spectacularly and embarrassingly failed. There has been no breakthrough. He has been a constant source of criticism and derision for his perceived partiality and ineptitude.

A commentator in 2010 observed:

‘Alexander Downer shall pass, just as the offending air from a bad fart passes on, eventually, no matter how foul. But two forces will remain.’

An article today in the Cyprus Mail ridicules his failure:

‘He could not talk about the weather without provoking a barrage of criticism of his alleged pro-Turkish bias, combined with calls for his immediate replacement.’

Even moderate comments are mocked simply because they emanate from Alexander Downer.

http://www.independentaustralia.net/2013/politics/downer-by-name-disaster-by-nature/

------------------------

See toon and stories from top...

May 2011: Beware of scam callers pretending to be from the Government or a bank and asking for an upfront fee to reclaim your overcharged bank fees.

• You receive a call out of the blue from a scammer claiming you are eligible to reclaim several thousands of dollars in overcharged bank fees.
• The caller pretends to be from a fake government department, specifically an ‘Australian Government Reclaim Department’ (or variations of this). Some scammers also claim to be from the ‘Office of Fair Trading’ or a bank.
• They ask for an upfront payment of a few hundred dollars, typically calling it a donation to charity, an administration fee or taxes. 
• They will ask for this payment to be sent overseas via a wire transfer service.
• The scammer may provide you with a reference number, a return phone number (which may look like an Australian number but is often a VOIP number) and in some cases an Australian address. 
• They will try to convince you that their call is legitimate by allowing you to speak with a supervisor if you ask to do so.
• They will offer to deliver the cheque to your house after you pay upfront costs but in reality you will never receive the cheque or any money from the scammers and will have lost any money you pay them.

• If you receive a phone call out of the blue claiming you are entitled to a refund, hang up immediately. If you’re not sure that the call was a scam you can check by independently finding the bank or Government department’s contact details and calling them directly.
• Be suspicious if the caller claims to be from a bank or the Government (specifically a fake ‘Australian Government Reclaim Department’ - or variation on this - or from the ‘Office of Fair Trading’).
• Remember that you can still receive scam calls even if you have a private number or have listed your number on the Australian Government’s Do Not Call Register. Scammers can obtain your number fraudulently or from anywhere it has been publicly listed such as in a phone book.
• NEVER provide or confirm your personal details, or give money to someone unless you made the call using details you found yourself and you trust the other party.
• SCAMwatch urges you to never pay money upfront to receive ‘free’ money – this is advance fee fraud.
• If you think you have provided your account details to a scammer, contact your bank or financial institution immediately.